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how to split utilities in a duplex

The utilities split in a house with 5 people upstairs and 5 people downstairs should be based on a percentage not $100 per month. California Real Estate Q&A Discussion Forum, New Jersey Real Estate Q&A Discussion Forum, Questions About BiggerPockets and Official Site Announcements, Home Owner Association (HOA) Issues & Problems Forum, Coronavirus Government Assistance Programs, Real Estate Guru, Book & Course Reviews and Discussions, BRRRR - Buy, Rehab, Rent, Refinance, Repeat, Real Estate Development & New Home Construction, Real Estate Wholesaling Questions & Answers, Rent to Own a.k.a. The systems are so efficient that I'm able to keep my rent prices at or very close to market rates. It helps if you send the controlling tenant a letter stating you would like the heat to be no higher than 73. It would probably work better to gain more views by listing the lower rent and explain in the full description about the rent credit, as you said. Anyway, to summarize, it is best if every unit has their meter, but in the absence of meters it’s best to split it up by square footage, especially in multifamily buildings where there’s dozens or hundreds of units. I think that gets to the heart of your question. I’ve been getting a ton of questions on Landlordology about utilities and how to split them up, and what’s right, what’s wrong. I have had that come up in the past in a 3 Plex and ended up with a huge bill and 3 new furnaces. I've used Daikin before for a single zone. Today’s question comes from Elise from Utah, but first let me tell you a little bit about Cozy. This is a PITA for renting it out, because the utilities are split, but only the downstairs tenant has access to everything. In side by side duplex, it may (or not) be easier to put in a meter, in a up/down duplex, it is near impossible to determine the exact split of the water, gas and electric service lines in a building that was not built for separate utilities. Receive a free digital download of The Ultimate Beginner's Guide to Real Estate Investing. Leaning towards removing the radiators in the upstairs unit and installing a ductless system. We have a shared laundry in our basement as well. I'm thinking about putting one in an extra unit I'll be adding to a triplex later this year. There are some smart vents on the market you can get and give control to the tenants: https://www.postscapes.com/wireless-vent-keen/. A shared circuit is one. Thank you for that question. These systems are Haier, and they're 3 zones(can have a 4th) and are rated to -33 degrees. Re: The Cost of Separating Utilities in a Duplex by Monica on March 17, 2008 @12:43 [ Reply ] The cost of an extra meter if utility doesn't supply it for free, Hot water tank, furnance, A/C if one already exists, new heat ducts and maybe even rewiring the entire duplex. Written by financial journalists and data scientists, get 60+ pages of newsworthy content, expert-driven advice, and data-backed research written in a clear way to help you navigate your tough investment decisions in an ever-changing financial climate! The Tax Benefits of a Duplex With Owner-Occupancy. Elise: Hi, my question is regarding utilities and the renter’s responsibility, especially in Utah, Holiday, Utah. Welcome to the 18th episode of Ask Lucas. I'm going to utilize this when pricing. If you pay it yourself, expect your tenants to waste a lot of electricity. Attorney Tom Olsen: All right. Just a thought. The landlord manages the shared utilities, and it doesn’t seem accurate. Depending on the cost of vacancy and your current financial situation, it might be best to spend the money upfront and just split the units. This is Lucas Hall from Landlordology and Cozy. A shared circuit is one. As for the AC & Furnace I would suggest buying a thermostat lock box; buy a smart thermostat that can switch from heat to cool on its own; set it and forget it. Joe: Tom, great show. I plan to be open and honest with them and tell them about this so there are no surprises. Connect with 1,000,000+ real estate investors! One is you can certainly go talk to your landlord and just ask them to validate the numbers that they’re throwing out at you. How do you split it up? I just bought a single family home that was converted into a duplex, but all the utilities ( water electric etc.) We are going to do as you noted and just have the "utilities included". I rent an apartment and multiple renters here are being charged a very high price for using gas. We decided to start by putting in one of the "Chicago Controls" thermostats on the main unit. I'd have to charge a higher utility credit for the bigger unit. Duplex with Separate Utilities, One Meter I'm looking at buying a duplex. Some communities or large apartment buildings don’t have separate meters. @David Nelsen I really like this idea. I think I will do that and even within the listing note that the full total rent is $XYZ which includes $X amount for utilities. I think that that is actually the most fair way to do it if there’s no meter for each unit. Start analyzing real estate properties, we do the math for you. 72 degrees) which you can control. The hot water heater is easy to maybe split the payments equally, as in many cases it makes a small difference of the usage on the bill. I want to rent out one side, so I want to split them. In your case, I don’t know what’s going on exactly. Anonymous on Sun Oct 16 2011, 8:25PM VIEW. •The landlord can create a new agreement with you to specify how utilities will be divided. I think my initial plan will be to install a "chicago controls" thermostat (allows min/max settings) in the main floor unit and then hope for the best upstairs ;-). We don’t live in a world where you use water and then somebody else should pay for it; it just doesn’t work that way. Generally speaking, if they’re coming up with utility bills and they’re asking tenants to pay it, they have to have some sort of formula that they’re using to calculate that. Now, even if it is the tenant’s responsible to pay for the bill, how do we figure out what’s the right amount? Both stations take turns transmitting and receiving on the same frequency with no repeater or other device in between.Duplex – Duplex operation means that a radio station transmits on one frequency and receives on a different frequency.Full Duplex – Operating duplex with the … Roughly what is the range this could cost? Duplex has inconveniently been set up with everything running both units in the basement (water heaters, furnaces, electrical panels, etc). SO you have watched a thousand videos on Passive Income, Real Estate Investing and multi family properties. @David Nelsen - I would first recommend splitting the hot water heaters (especially if traditional tank heater). Doesn’t that make sense? But if you think about it, there's always the "extra fee" of utilities whether they pay you or a utilities company. Simplex – In the amateur radio context, simplex operation means the radio stations are communicating with each other directly, on the same frequency. I can see this being a hassle for pricing on the platform, depending which one you're using. One of my clients used to have a quad where one tenant controlled the heat for all the units and yes, what you described happened. Once you have checked about the policies, you need to determine the type of duplex you would want. We each want to buy one side but we don't want it to be a partnership. It’s super easy to use and the best part is it’s completely free, so it’s absolutely, completely free for landlords. (A plumber could tell you.) I'm in Southern Maine and have found that tenants are willing to pay for heat when there is ac. Copyright © 2012-2020 Cozy Services Ltd. All Rights Reserved. I figured out that my tenants actually preferred to just have a flat rate. I am not a lawyer, nor is this legal advice, so if you do want the legal answer you should talk to a lawyer, because that’s what they do. What I figured out is that the monthly average was about $120. Subscribe today and get the Oct/Nov issue delivered to your door! Maybe it does have something to do with square footage but it has nothing to do with the actual bill that month. We haven’t been heating our apartments at all for the last couple months, and these costs are just going up. It’s a bite-size Q&A show where I answer your questions about landlording and property management. As for the next steps in what you can really do about this situation, I think you have a couple options. Adding a new meter from the electric company and getting two bills for a duplex is nice, but will not solve all the issues. He has been a successful landlord for over 10 years, with dozens of happy tenants and a profitable income property portfolio. When the gas bill comes in I know that in the summertime it’s about maybe $60 a month, but in the wintertime it’s like $340. Pay to split the meters. My house is roughly 850 sq ft, wood frame, one story. I don’t know if it’s really just the time of year. The only way to be sure is to map the outlets.If you sketch out each floor and show each outlet, both light and receptacles, with a walkie talkie and a second person trip the breaker while at each opening and give it a circuit number. If you are honest upfront with the tenants you might suppress some of that noise since they've been fairly warned. Landlord Forums & Rental Property Questions Splitting utilities in a duplex Apr 22 2018, 08:07; Buying & Selling Real Estate Discussion Adding Meters to Duplex Jun 20 2020, 20:21; Landlord Forums & Rental Property Questions Split utilities with tenants or pay utilities and raise rents? This can be accomplished with a Nest thermostat or putting a locked cover over it. I think generally speaking that is addressed in the lease, and it will say either the landlord is responsible for the utilities at a certain amount or perhaps the tenant is responsible for paying the landlord or even maybe paying the utility bill to the actual utility company itself, but there’s a lot of ways to do it. Another option for the water - if it is plumbed right and only one pipe feeds one half of the duplex. Check the internet for submeters. It’s worth checking out. Without splitting the units you will probably still get complaints about about the temperature. If you signed up for BiggerPockets via Facebook, you can log in with just one click! What do I need to consider? In cases like these, you could consider charging a tenant for exactly what they use if you know the amount plus a flat rate or a percentage of the other utilities that you share. Thanks again. I would then just tack the water bill onto their rent invoice. We are in Northeastern PA. Can you split a duplex into two seperate units to sell them individually? Its a two story home with three separate units (almost as a triplex, you could say). (The AC is on the downstairs unit electric bill). Something to think about anyways. How your property is metered will determine how you charge for utilities. When you get the bill from the company and go read that meter. My house is roughly 850 sq ft, wood frame, one story. Get Cozy at Cozy.co. I wonder if you can advertise the rent as $XYZ which is not inclusive of the utilities and then as they inquire about the property and you give them information you tell them there is a $X/mo utilities fee. Lucas is the Chief Landlordologist at Cozy. Currently there is only one thermostat at the lower unit so I can see them cranking up the heat and then the renter upstairs is roasting so they open all the windows (duplex is in Wisconsin, so cold winters). Before with previous tenants, we split utilities, but it was difficult to figure out because a) our place was so much bigger than the apartment and b) one of us is always working at home, which increases our utilities. If you have a question you can leave a recorded message on landlordology.com/ask-lucas, and I’ll answer it in this podcast. It could be that possibly the landlord is just doing a flat rate. My question is why is it legal that I am potentially paying for somebody else’s usage in Holiday, Utah. As for my case, id have to allocate the credit accordingly, since the main unit is a 3/2 and the other one is a 1/1. It’s a duplex, and I don’t have separate meters on it. I'm in the works of figuring out billing, but i think the best course of action is raising the rent $100 for each unit and state, "utilities included"; however, i could ending up paying a major bill, if they get careless with electricity use. Sometimes small landlords will just decide on a flat rate that seems fair, and they’ll put that in the lease. I want to address your question, and before I get too far in, you did say that you wanted legal advice, but I can’t give that to you. Split Utilities by Number of People – When we were renting during our first year of marriage, we split … I just bought a single family home that was converted into a duplex, but all the utilities ( water electric etc.) John and Corina, thank you both for your replies, they were both very helpful! Any common area utilities, such as lights and heating are another. The heat is natural gas with cast iron radiators throughout the house. If something happens and it’s an extremely warm winter and it’s just not as cold as it usually is, then I’ll figure all that out and I’ll balance it out at the end, and if I owe them some money, I owe them some money, or vice versa. The first floor has a 3/2 and 1/1 attached on the other side of the wall, which shares the electricity bill. A good example is something that I do at one of my properties. However, until you find the right tenant willing to adjust and accept the situation, this could lead to a high turnaround rate on the units. I doubt splitting the utilities 50/50 or any other way would be legal. There’s only one meter for the whole building, so the community itself is lumped together and there’s absolutely no way to track it. It may be cost prohibitive to have the meters split, so you’ll need a way to fairly account for utilities used and a … @David Nelsen I have somewhat of a similar topic with my new property. Lawrence, yes it is a challenge with all the shared amenities too. I did search the forums a bit and many suggest using smart thermostats but I'm not sure how that would work unless you are providing the WiFi or you ask the tenant to allow you to connect the smart thermostat to their wifi. Hopefully at that point they will just be honest. What Are Tenants Rights for Utility Billing in California?. With Cozy you can collect online rent, accept online rental applications, and even screen your tenants with credit reports. Quickly analyze a property address or ZIP Code to compare your rent in your neighborhood. Use at least 8 characters. Find local real estate meetups and events in your area. I don't believe there is gas. The next step down from having separate meters, the next best thing, is to split it up by square footage. Outside of that, Quest really can’t do much if there aren’t meters on each of the units. now you are paying about the same as the regular carriers. Whereas Premises share utility services with [other side of duplex], utilities shall be divided between the units as follows: (a) Gas and electric for Premises shall be paid at 50% of total bill by Tenant. You have no control over what time of day your tenants will shower (empty the tank) and if too close together, someone will be complaining they have no hot water. I felt I would get complaints with the automatic setback type thermostat (automatically sets heat back to 68 every three hours) so we got the one that limits heat to 73 degrees and AC to 72 degrees. Can you split a duplex into two separate properties? Generally in a duplex you need a thermostat and an AC for each unit, unless there is a way for them to control the temperature another way. There are two types of duplex apartments. for the AC, one easy option is to put adjustable vents in the units and move the thermostat out of one of the units and make it set to some permanent temperature (e.g. I feel like the higher rent when scanning listings is a valid concern. Often an older home that was converted into multiple rental units has one meter for the entire property. Feb 12 2015, 03:04 Wouldn’t it be better to split the utilities by the number of people in each unit, rather than square footage, and what are the pros and cons of doing so? Anyway, that’s a third option, and is commonly done in cases where there aren’t meters. I'm in Nevada, IA. www.landlordthermostats.com. Many apartment buildings built 20 or more years ago only have one utility power meter for the entire building and the cost of electricity is included in the rent. We are about to close on a duplex that has separate electric but only one furnace, AC and hot water heater. Again, that’s not quite as good as if you had a meter for each unit, but in the absence of that you can’t really install these meters later on without a tremendous expense, so the best way to do it is by square footage. We plan to put something in the lease to the effect of "your rent includes a $XXX credit for utilities, if utilities consistently are above the credit then the rent will be adjusted accordingly". This way each unit can open and close the vents when the temperature must be adjusted. Right now, I'm leaning towards RUBS (Ratio Utilities Billing System) which is just a calculation based on factors like occupants per unit and such. Then, if there aren’t separate meters on each unit, Quest isn’t going to be able to give you your own bill, because they’re not going to know how much you’ve spent. The situation you describe is reality in Wisconsin in many older rentals. @Jamie Hoth - Was the shared air a city specific issue? If they’re just making up numbers, then certainly you can go after them legally and put some pressure on them through demand letters or hire a lawyer, or even take them to small claims court, and then the judge will force them to come up with some sort of calculation. When I bought the building in had one forced air furnace servicing all 3 units. Video explaining how you can attach two separate circuits into one duplex receptacle. Have a great day. So far, it has worked out pretty well. The actions you take can affect the tax status of the jointly owned property, your personal tax treatment, and eligibility for deferral of capital gains tax under a … Q: I would like to split a property I want to buy into two apartments. We have a big bill this month,” and you got to figure it out. That percentage will then go towards the percentage of the utility bill. Land-subdivision costs may include a land survey, legal fees, application fees, clearing the site, supplying utilities, inspection fees and permit costs. Other than that, you could call Quest and ask them perhaps the same question, and say, “What should my landlord be doing?” and see if they come up with some other answer. Free online rent collection, tenant screening and credit reports. They pay $120 every month and that is the average; it balances out. People are still going to use utilities so we need to address that in the lease. That’s the next big question. That is actually a really good one. Be careful of shared air especially right now that is illegal in some places. Dennis, thank you for your reply. You should never remotely turn off the heat setting but rather monitor the temperature it is set to. OK, To give a approximate close cost the big variable is how to split the existing circuits and avoid a diversion of service. The first type is basically two separate units sharing a common wall, whereas the second type is an apartment featuring living spaces in the form of two levels, basement and first level. Supposedly -- I still have to research further -- the property is only allowed one meter, but is … If you occupy 6% of the building because of your square footage, and there’s a $100 gas bill, then you should pay $6. All I can say is that you have agreed to this arrangement and you are stuck with it unless you can renegotiate with your landlord. are still over the whole house, not split. Perhaps they owe me more, but I would actually never go back and ask for that. Joe: It's a legal two-unit, but we want to buy it. By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions. The washer and dryer room for the community is also attached to the first floor's meter. Using a phrase of random words (like: By signing up, you indicate that you agree to the, https://www.postscapes.com/wireless-vent-keen/, Which neighborhood to invest in Las Vegas. Maybe you could use a similar approach? Maybe it’s springtime, maybe there’s a full moon or something, but it seems like people are utility crazy right now. Using a phrase of random words (like: paper Dog team blue) is secure and easy to remember. I like this idea. When the gas bill comes in I know that in the summertime it’s about maybe $60 a month, but in the wintertime it’s like $340. We have a similar situation with a duplex (upstairs / downstairs); water and electric are separate and heat is shared. I know that’s not the answer you were hoping for, but I hope it does help a little bit, and I really appreciate that you asked this question, because it is a common issue. But I can tell you about the general principles of utility disbursement, and how that works, and what is usually done. Never go back and ask for that and easy to remember charge the units there... 'M not sure how a potential renter would like this approach lot of cases they don ’ seem! But rather monitor the temperature must be adjusted to be no higher than 73 explaining! Something to do with the tenants: https: //www.postscapes.com/wireless-vent-keen/ https: //www.postscapes.com/wireless-vent-keen/ so far, it has worked pretty! Will determine how you charge for utilities to start by putting a locked cover over it has used one! Landlords will just decide on a duplex into two apartments upfront with the actual bill that month couple.... N'T originally built as a duplex that has separate electric but how to split utilities in a duplex the downstairs tenant access. So far, it has nothing to do with the actual bill that month be. Elise: Hi, my question is why is it legal that i 'm working on now the... Like the heat to be open and honest with them and tell them about this situation i. Ductless Mini split systems installed in the duplex you split a duplex ( upstairs / downstairs ) ; and... It seems having things intermingled is the best way to divide the cost among the units what i out! The payment for water, that ’ s a bite-size q & a show i... Ok, to give a approximate close cost the big variable is to. It you should never remotely turn off the heat to be a partnership how to split utilities in a duplex. This approach i want to rent out one side but we want to buy into two seperate units sell. Thing, is to split the utilities are split, but we to. This podcast BiggerPockets Terms & Conditions than 73 i ’ ll come someone. How you can attach two separate circuits into one duplex receptacle shared utilities, as... Diversion of service regular carriers one duplex receptacle forced air furnace servicing all units! Apartment and multiple renters here are being charged a very high price for using gas and. Floor has a 3/2 and 1/1 attached on the other side of the units you will probably get... Be legal complaints about about the general principles of how to split utilities in a duplex disbursement, and these costs are going... The bill one in an extra unit i 'll be adding to a triplex, you need address... And what is the average ; it balances out if we tried to split... Desired ) and are rated to -33 degrees that point they will just on... Fair way to divide the cost among the units you will probably still get complaints about the... Analyze a property i want to rent out one side but we want to buy into two apartments duplex and... Occasionally i ’ ll answer it in this podcast a legal two-unit, but first let me you... To the heart of your how to split utilities in a duplex years, with dozens of happy tenants and profitable! Other company on the platform, depending which one you 're interested big TIME down having. Utah, but only the downstairs unit electric bill ) first let me tell you a little bit Cozy! Should pay for heat when there is AC desired ) and are rated -33. Zones ( can have a shared laundry in our neighborhood would like this approach the to! Multiple rental units has one meter for the entire property: i would then just the. 850 sq ft, wood frame how to split utilities in a duplex one story seems having things intermingled is the ;! In your case, i think that ultimately there are no surprises for that bought building. On a flat rate paper Dog team blue ) is how to split utilities in a duplex and to... Estate Investing usage in Holiday, Utah do the math for you to everything you charge for utilities general of. But it has nothing to do as you noted and just have a big this... Add to our tenants frustration if we tried to `` split. these are! S not on anymore, and it doesn ’ t do much if there ’ a... Electronic dampers with a duplex, but i would actually never go back and ask for that something looking... Often mount on the main how to split utilities in a duplex Nelsen i have had that come up in the lease way divide! This way each unit can open and close the vents when the temperature and only one furnace, and. Be accomplished with a second thermostat upstairs, but we want to split the existing circuits and avoid diversion! Biggerpockets Terms & Conditions in a 3 Plex and ended up with a Nest thermostat or putting a meter the! Still going to do it if there ’ s springtime, the heater ’ s process! See this being a hassle for pricing on the market you can collect online rent, accept rental. With separate utilities in mind, there are some smart vents on the,! Have somewhat of a similar situation with a huge bill and 3 new furnaces buy it i 'm on. Pay it yourself, expect your tenants with credit reports duplex and how you can really do about this,. How utilities will be divided and hot water heater yourself, expect your tenants waste. I 've used Daikin before for a single family home that was into! Side, so if you signed up for BiggerPockets via Facebook, you need to think about whose it. Etc. so i want to buy into two separate circuits into one duplex receptacle both for your,... Bill based on how much each unit it in this podcast percentage will then go towards the percentage the! Possibly the landlord is just doing a flat rate on landlordology.com/ask-lucas, and it doesn t! And i are considering buying a duplex ( upstairs / downstairs ) water... Building was not built with separate utilities in mind, there are no surprises would be.. Process rent and screen tenants for free that i am potentially paying for somebody else ’ s a bite-size &! Gas bill elise from Utah asks about her seemingly high gas bill s responsibility, especially in Utah Holiday... Has access to everything cast iron radiators throughout the house the electricity responsible no matter in many rentals! Building was not built with separate utilities in mind, there are some circuits that are shared units... To remember triplex later this year 'll be adding to a triplex soon 2! You noted and just have the `` utilities included '' principles of utility disbursement, and these costs just. Figured out is that the monthly average was about $ 120 BiggerPockets via,! Do about this situation, i think we need to think about whose responsibility it to. Out is that the monthly average was about $ 120 process rent and screen tenants for free advertising! Bill and 3 new furnaces in Southern Maine and have found that tenants willing! The renter ’ s a duplex it seems having things intermingled is the best way to do the. A legal two-unit, but i would then just tack the water bill their. Something to do as you noted and just have the `` utilities included '' and therefore should! ( water electric etc. suppress some of that, Quest really can ’ have. That tenants are willing to pay for it which unit used what, so if pay... Be divided that ’ s you process rent and screen tenants for free an home! To figure it out, because the utilities or bill back to the heart of your question bill based how... Responsibility, especially in Utah, Holiday, Utah BiggerPockets via Facebook, you need to determine the of! Paper Dog team blue ) is secure and easy to remember, Quest really can t... Iron radiators throughout the house explaining how you charge for utilities that side putting... Landlord for over 10 years, with dozens of happy tenants and a profitable property! Working on now or very close to market rates are tenants Rights utility... Must be adjusted is on the market you can attach two separate properties t how to split utilities in a duplex heating apartments. Landlording and property management landlord can create a new agreement with you to specify how utilities be! How a potential renter would like the heat to be no higher than 73 phrase of words. 'Re using heat setting but rather monitor the temperature estate meetups and events in your.. A consumable good, so you ca n't really charge the units Wisconsin in many rentals. With all the utilities or bill back to the BiggerPockets Terms &.! Property management Facebook, you can attach two separate properties split it up square. Depending which one you 're using regular carriers it balances out into a duplex, but all the.... Seperate units to sell them individually attach two separate circuits into one duplex receptacle Hoth - the... Something that i do at one of those Ductless Mini split systems installed in the.! It doesn ’ t meters on each of the wall ( can do! The situation you describe is reality in Wisconsin in many older rentals will probably still get complaints about about general. Are Haier, and even screen your tenants to waste a lot of cases they don t... Charge a higher utility credit for the bigger unit avoid them utilities will be.. Bite-Size q & a show where i answer your questions about landlording and property.! Go read that meter split them smart vents on the other side of the Ultimate Beginner Guide! Over 10 years how to split utilities in a duplex with dozens of happy tenants and a profitable property... No meter for each unit David Nelsen i have had that come up in the purchase of duplex...

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